Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes

I only had the opportunity to hear a few snippets from the Obama speech yesterday and a little analysis on NPR.  I was working, in my car, parked in a Home Depot parking lot in a working class neighborhood in Detroit.  
I am a white woman, in my sixties, a "Clintonista" perhaps not all that different in some respects from Obama's grandmother.  Until yesterday I would not have voted for Obama for a number of reasons, the Wright flap just the latest.  But something moved in me yesterday.  Obama is changing my mind and opening my eyes.

Few people outside of Michigan realize it is the most racially segregated state in the country; if you are black in Michigan there is a 99% chance you live south of Eight Mile, in Detroit proper or in one of her inner "black" suburbs, or within the  confines of Saginaw, Flint, Benton Harbor or another economically ravaged industrial city in the south.  If you are white you almost certainly live anyplace but.  You may live in a rural area or a small town, a northern city or most likely in one of the white suburbs that range in affluence and ring each black crumbled urban core.
If you are black you no doubt live somewhere with few jobs, poor schools, abandoned buildings, overgrown parks, few places to shop and a decimated infrastructure.  The shuttered factories are in your neighborhood; the "high-tech" opportunities are in places you cannot reach on public transportation.  Integration never happened in Michigan, save for precious few neighborhoods in a college town or two, and racial tensions are palable whereever integration exists without affluence.

I grew up in Detroit when the city was 70% white although carved up cleanly into white and black neighborhoods. In 1967 from my white front porch we watched black Detroit burn on the near horizon while my father laid out garden hoses and my brother loaded his shotgun.   My father took our family and fled post-haste to a white suburb just ahead of the wave of real estate "block busting" that left Detroit 99% black and struggling.  When the white people left the stores soon followed, then the jobs and with them the tax base and city services.  

Detroit and Michigan had it's own "old uncle" -- Coleman Young, the first black mayor of Detroit, an old Tuskegee Airman who for two decades as mayor did as much to divide the races and promote racial distrust as the white backlash from the summer of 1967.  He gloried in thumbing his nose at white convention and blaming the white man.  When he died white people shook their heads and snickered; Detroiters lined up around three city blocks five times in the rain to view his casket.

My own immigrant father was not bashful in his racism and I grew up with my more comparitively humanistic mother warning me about the "boogie man."  The only blacks I saw until high school were the garbage men, the people who cleaned the tables in Hudsons, the people who smelled funny (of pomade and cleaning agents) when they passed me on their way to the back of the DSR bus and the people I saw out the window of the bus as it passed through Herman Gardens, the nearest "project".  No doctors, no policemen, no professionals of color; even the bus drivers, in their limited authority, were white men to the man.

I dispised my father's attitudes from the first minute I recognized them for what they were and internally raged at him.  I felt safe only in visibly rebelling by withholding my laughter from his racist jokes.  I vowed long before puberty never to be like him -- much easier vowed than done.

Regardless of how much I might wish for different psychological software, I still am not myself around black people, but not in the ways black people might think.  Yes, black men set off a fear in me I can't abort,  they make me more conscious of my purse and my surroundings, but within a flash more so they set off an internal tirade against myself damning my automatic responses.  I constantly fight painfilled self consciousness around black people -- am I being friendly enough?  too friendly? Will some stupid comment escape from my mouth before I can stop it?   will my next social faux pas be racist?   Can you see how I was raised behind my earnest attempts to overcome and hate me for it?

And thanks to Obama I now feel safe in saying black people have not been making these struggles all that easy for me.  I've been called out I don't know how many damn times for some truly innocent remark that if anything came from ignorance or a misspoken word blown up beyond reason.  I've been accused of racism for criticizing a black boss and a black dean that truly deserved it, for failing a few black students who no one in their right mind could pass and after my best efforts to prevent it, for living out in the country when it really is about birdies and trees and not white flight.

If I am stained with the sins of my father and my mind is trained to first racially stereotype, does it matter at all how doggedly determined I've been all my life to change myself?  Does it matter how consciencious I've been not to pass any diseased thinking onto my children?  Does it matter that I have dedicated myself to working in social justice to atone for who I was programmed to be?

And then I saw it, in a parking lot.  Obama opened my eyes, not for the first time certainly,  but to a much deeper place.   I recognized the black people around me, getting in and out of their cars, struggling with carts, dodging the rain, hurried, relaxed, casual, over-burdened, families and handymen,  as at once no different from me and yet so profoundly unlike me in how they are ghettoized and marginalized.  Compared to my local store the vehicles were older and less impressive, the carts were not as full, the voices were louder and perhaps more urgent.  Being black in Detroit is to always be walking upstream.

It hit me as I sat there that in this neighborhood in particular few of these folks had jobs outside of the service sector, money had to be tighter, opportunities had to be fewer.  And of course yes the aspirations were the same -- to do the best for the children, to care well for the loved ones, to create a safe and pleasant home, to earn and watch money and have some time left at the end of the day to relax -- but against a torrent of obstacles moving against you.

Yesterday Obama the man spoke about the obvious and the unspeakable,  and Obama the phenomenon moved something in me and perhaps in many others black and white.  Here in Detroit, in my limited observation, the tension seemed ratcheted down more than a little.  The smiles across the racial divide seemed more genuine, the struggles just a little more shared.  With one foot planted on either side of the division, refusing to deny either, Obama asks us all to honor our old uncles and intolerant fathers while opening our eyes to each other.

That said, Hillary Clinton is speaking in downtown Detroit this morning.  I thought about driving downtown to see her but instead took the time to write this.  I still think her better qualified, I still long for a female president, I still don't appreciate the vitriole coming from the Obama camp at times.  I still struggle with which of them is more electable.

But I appreciate Obama the man and the healer much more and thank him for opening my eyes.  And I would ask my fellow "Clintonistas" and all "Obamatons" to search their own hearts before typing.  We are actually blessed to have one another.  Lay down the swords.  Open your eyes.  

 



Display:


Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 9)

Thank you.  Recommended.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:21:22 AM EST

it's a shame Obama waited till he was running (1.25 / 4)

for president to deal with the issue of race, when he had 20 years to speak and influence Jeremiah Wright, and never bothered.


by earthoat on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:12:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it's a shame Obama waited till he was running (2.00 / 4)

How do you know so much about Obama?

It's amazing! I didn't realize that the classes that he taught on race didn't actually deal with race!

Please tell us how you know so much!


by luckymortal on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:23:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Campbell Brown and Jack Cafferty told me (1.00 / 3)


by earthoat on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:33:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 15)

Wonderful post. It gives me hope that most Clinton fans will be able to see the general election like you do at the convention when Obama is most likely named the nominee. Recommended.


by Cheebs on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:26:19 AM EST

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 9)

I'm a Hillary supporter myself-- and plan on supporting Obama if he wins the nomination, and will urge my fellow Hillary-ites to actively support him, or at least vote for him in the general election.  I hope our Obama breathren will do the same, if Hillary becomes our nominee instead.


by Sieglinde on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:53:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

a great comment - anonymous (1.72 / 11)

>>>>Barack Obama needed to create a positive story and as usual used a speech, his greatest strength. Who would trash a speech on race relations? So this morning we wake to almost unanimous adulation for the speech.

However, he didn't use the speech to distance himself from Rev Wright and his hateful rhetoric. Rather, he used the issue of race to try to silence his critics. The whole idea of the controversy, I think, is that Barack Obama associates himself with Rev Wright. We'll have many opinions about Rev Wright on here, but the UPS driver in Indiana will only hear "God damn America." I don't think this will go away with his speech. Nothing short of cutting off all ties with the controversial figure will satisfy. This is universal truth when it comes to politics, but the novice Barack Obama does not seem to know this.

The NYTimes brought up an interesting point about this speech. Barack Obama is asking us to take Rev Wright's fiery rhetoric and to put it in context with his entire life, to put it in perspective. We are not supposed to judge the man based on these "few" anti-American speeches. Overall, Obama says, Rev Wright is a good man. Yet when it comes to his political opponent, Hillary Clinton, we are supposed to focus on one thing: her "bad" judgment on Iraq. We are to ignore the context of her life, or the bigger perspective. It seems as if he's guilty of doing the same thing people may already have done with Rev Wright. This is politics as usual, nothing new, nothing fresh. Just politics.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:02:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 7)

"Rather, he used the issue of race to try to silence his critics"

That's a pretty cynical way of looking at it.


by Sinbad Sinbad on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:16:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 4)

I don't think see it as being all that cynical.
He did the speech because he needed to try and stop the bleeding from the Wright story, its not like he has been pushing race as a focal point of his campaign or anything.
by big poppa smurf on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:29:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not quite accurate. (2.00 / 8)

I was surprised to hear that Obama eventually intended to make a speech like this no matter what (probably after becoming the nominee), but pushed his plans forward, indeed, to stop the 24 hour droning of Wright on TV.

He's not trying to "silence his critics," he's trying to re-align the debate in a way that he always intended to, but found necessary to do right away because of the tenor of the campaigns.

You can, if you wish, attribute everything he does as being calculatingly political, but that's a lens that you'll have to focus on all presidential nominees.  You don't become a presidential nominee without first being able to see problems and react to them.

"How dare he defend himself?" is pretty weak criticism.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:56:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not quite accurate. (2.00 / 3)

Yeah, I thought the line was that Obama was too weak to stand up to the Republican attack machine.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:35:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The line is that his speech writers are (1.14 / 7)

doing their thing, his handlers are doing theirs, and he is a first rate actor, and fine commercial product.
I still wonder why it is considered enlightening for a Harvard grad to take  his daughters to worship with a hater.

by earthoat on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The line is that his speech writers are (2.00 / 1)

What's enlightening is that some people still think that "hate" is all an important and controvercial American ever was.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The line is that his speech writers are (2.00 / 5)

again you prove your ignorance: it has been widely reported that this speech was written in Obama's own hand.


I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.
by JDF on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:50:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The line is that his speech writers are (2.00 / 2)

This speech was written entirely by Obama.


by mady on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:32:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then why (2.00 / 1)

Did the speech contain zero policy content?  Or even policy recommendations?  Or even recommendations to folks about how to act?

What is the follow-up plan?

Obama is very gifted with words.  There's no doubt at all about that.  But that is not enough.


by Trickster on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:53:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure, policy. Right. (2.00 / 5)

What policy do you suggest is helpful in discussing race in a political campaign?  Should we put a tax on hate speech?  $1 goes into the "hate jar" for each insensitive remark?

This isn't about policy, it's about reframing the debate.

Obama's never obfuscated his policies on how to tackle racial issues: he believes that we need to fix the economic and social problems, and that will begin to make things better.

So, again, what "policy" would make a problem with discussing race in a presidential campaign would be helpful?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:08:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ok (none / 0)

First, there are some policies involved.  For example, what is Senator Obama's position on Affirmative Action?  Maybe I just don't know where to look, but I don't find it listed on the "Issues" page of his website, either as a separate issue or under "Civil Rights."  At any rate, regardless of whether I know where to look, I have been listening, all year, and I don't know his position on this subject.

Second, if it's about reframing the debate, where is he going to go with this message from here?  When is his next speech on race scheduled?  What will he be saying about race in his stump speech next week?  And why hasn't he been speaking about it before?  To the extent that some of these questions are as yet unanswered, I may be surprised and find that Obama really is speaking about race next week--I just don't expect it.

If he really wanted a debate, why didn't he encourage Ferraro to speak out, or at least address the substance of her comments, instead of having his campaign call on her to be silenced?

Obama senior adviser David Axelrod said Ferraro should be removed from her position with the Clinton campaign because of her comments.

"The bottom line is this, when you wink and nod at offensive statements, you're really sending a signal to your supporters that anything goes," Axelrod said in a conference call with reporters on Tuesday.

"There's no other way to send a serious signal that you want to police the tone of this campaign," he added. "And if you don't do those things then you are simply adding to the growing compendium of evidence that you really are encouraging that."

Axelrod said Clinton has encountered problems because people view her as a "divisive and polarizing force."

"The best way to address those concerns is to not allow divisiveness and negativity to flourish among your supporters," he said. "And this is an opportunity for her to address that."

How does those words play out against yesterday's speech?  "Reframing the debate?"


by Trickster on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:43:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

10 seconds (2.00 / 2)

It took me 10 seconds on Google to determine that Obama mostly supports Affirmative Action, but is more in favor of AA based on income than race.

This is probably why you had trouble finding it on his website.  He is concerned more with the base causes that require AA than AA itself.

Looking at his website, I'm shocked that you didn't see the big nice section reading "Civil Rights."

The Problem
Pay Inequity Continues: For every $1.00 earned by a man, the average woman receives only 77 cents, while African American women only get 67 cents and Latinas receive only 57 cents.

Hate Crimes on the Rise: The number of hate crimes increased nearly 8 percent to 7,700 incidents in 2006.

Efforts Continue to Suppress the Vote: A recent study discovered numerous organized efforts to intimidate, mislead and suppress minority voters.

Disparities Continue to Plague Criminal Justice System: African Americans and Hispanics are more than twice as likely as whites to be searched, arrested, or subdued with force when stopped by police. Disparities in drug sentencing laws, like the differential treatment of crack as opposed to powder cocaine, are unfair.

Barack Obama's Plan
Strengthen Civil Rights Enforcement
Obama will reverse the politicization that has occurred in the Bush Administration's Department of Justice. He will put an end to the ideological litmus tests used to fill positions within the Civil Rights Division.

Combat Employment Discrimination
Obama will work to overturn the Supreme Court's recent ruling that curtails racial minorities' and women's ability to challenge pay discrimination. Obama will also pass the Fair Pay Act to ensure that women receive equal pay for equal work.

Expand Hate Crimes Statutes
Obama will strengthen federal hate crimes legislation and reinvigorate enforcement at the Department of Justice's Criminal Section.

End Deceptive Voting Practices
Obama will sign into law his legislation that establishes harsh penalties for those who have engaged in voter fraud and provides voters who have been misinformed with accurate and full information so they can vote.

End Racial Profiling
Obama will ban racial profiling by federal law enforcement agencies and provide federal incentives to state and local police departments to prohibit the practice.

Reduce Crime Recidivism by Providing Ex-Offender Support
Obama will provide job training, substance abuse and mental health counseling to ex-offenders, so that they are successfully re-integrated into society. Obama will also create a prison-to-work incentive program to improve ex-offender employment and job retention rates.

Eliminate Sentencing Disparities
Obama believes the disparity between sentencing crack and powder-based cocaine is wrong and should be completely eliminated.

Expand Use of Drug Courts
Obama will give first-time, non-violent offenders a chance to serve their sentence, where appropriate, in the type of drug rehabilitation programs that have proven to work better than a prison term in changing bad behavior.

Barack Obama's Record
Record of Advocacy: Obama has worked to promote civil rights and fairness in the criminal justice system throughout his career. As a community organizer, Obama helped 150,000 African Americans register to vote. As a civil rights lawyer, Obama litigated employment discrimination, housing discrimination, and voting rights cases. As a State Senator, Obama passed one of the country's first racial profiling laws and helped reform a broken death penalty system. And in the U.S. Senate, Obama has been a leading advocate for protecting the right to vote, helping to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act and leading the opposition against discriminatory barriers to voting.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:03:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe you'd be less shocked (none / 0)

If you read my post, including the part where I mentioned I didn't find anything about AA in the Civil Rights section.

I'm sure Obama has answered a question about AA at some point in time.  But if he doesn't campaign on it and doesn't put it on his website, why am I to think he is committed to it?

It seems to me more like one of those general-election issues that he is still trying to keep his distance from.


by Trickster on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe you'd be less shocked (none / 0)

Er, sorry.  I'm at work and doing three things at once.  My mistake.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:22:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you (none / 0)

Respect for owning up to mistake > disrespect for making original mistake.

And I think we've both made our points here.


by Trickster on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:55:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Roger that. (none / 0)

Not a problem.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But let me add something (none / 0)

From Craig Crawford:

Obama won deserved praise for his race-conscious speech on Tuesday, particularly for how he balanced much of his rhetoric between the plight of black Americans facing racism and the resentment of whites against affirmative action programs. Beyond the rhetoric, how would he translate that balancing act into policy?

Good luck getting answers. Media inquiries to the Obama campaign about affirmative action specifics produce responses that are at least as vague as the candidate's speeches. The Boston Globe this week made the latest run at obtaining affirmative details and got this written response:

Affirmative action programs "can open up opportunities otherwise closed to qualified minorities" without harming whites. Yet, "we shouldn't ignore that race continues to matter" in American society, Obama said; to suggest otherwise "turns a blind eye to both our history and our experience - and relieves us of the responsibility to make things right."

-- Obama campaign statement, Boston Globe (3/18)

The Globe's request to a spokesperson for more concrete answers got no response. It is politically smart to steer clear of race policy specifics in a campaign, but not so easy once you are in the White House.

That's consistent with my observations of the campaign.


by Trickster on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:00:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not quite accurate. (none / 0)

I look at all politicians with a cynical eye because they are, well pliticians.
It would be nice if others would make the same realization and stop putting politicians on lofty pedastals that they don't deserve to be on.
Onama did what any politician would do in this situation. It was done for his own survival and not as part of some idealistic goal to "turn the mirror on America" or anything else so ridiculously naive.
by big poppa smurf on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:24:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 5)

Actually, in a diary written by one of his students, I learned that much of what he talked about in this speech, he taught in his class.  That was in private, no cameras and he wasn't running for anything.  The former University of Chicago student dragged out his old notes and shared his experiences.  

Don't be so quick to assume that he is a different person than what he portrays in his speeches.

P.S. I'd give you a link to the diary but it's on the evil DKos and I know you guys are boycotting that site.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 4)

As usual he used a speech ...  can you suggest a better way of addressing the issue?


by interestedbystander on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:20:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

just watch (2.00 / 1)

they are gonna suggest he should have dropped out.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Policy proposals? (2.00 / 1)

A speech with no policy proposals coming in response to a campaign firestorm doesn't convince me that he's serious about racial reconciliation.

If he was serious, why didn't he initiate a dialogue with Geraldine Ferraro instead of just demanding that she shut up?


by Trickster on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:55:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Policy proposals? (2.00 / 1)

Can you please cite where he demanded she should shut up?


by interestedbystander on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 4)

It's a good thing I read mydd so I've been properly edjumacated on the candidates.

You wouldn't believe it, but if you left this site, you'd see that there are a lot of people who don't know that all Obama ever did in his life was give a bunch of speeches!

You know, some folks got this idea that he worked as a community organizer in poor black areas and organized a massive voter registration campaign to empower black voters in Chicago and taught classes on race and law and worked as a lawyer on discrimination cases and on and on.

But of course, I read mydd, so I know that he must not have done any of those things! He just gave a bunch of speeches...


by luckymortal on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:59:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and has a million dollar mansion to prove it (1.25 / 4)


by earthoat on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:03:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and has a million dollar mansion to prove it (2.00 / 5)

The million dollar mansion came from having a sweet book deal, not his speeches.

It's Bill Clinton that made upwards of $30-50 million giving speeches.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:09:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and has a million dollar mansion to prove it (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, I know first hand how you make the big bucks organizing for state PIRGs and ACORN!

Yep, he turned down the high-prestige legal petitions traditionally given to the president of the Harvard review and went into organizing because THAT'S where the money's at baby!


by luckymortal on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:33:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought the hundreds of thousands of dollars (1.00 / 4)

he got from Rezko and the Nuclear Power people he was supposed to be protecting hid district from was cash.


by earthoat on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:51:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought the hundreds of thousands of dollars (2.00 / 3)

If you have evidence regarding these accusations I'd certainly like you to share it.

So far, I've seen nothing beyond the kind of accusations Clinton faced with whitewater. Utter nonsense.

I'm open to the truth if you have anything beyond innuendo.


by luckymortal on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:00:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 5)

It's very clear to anyone who has read more than 3 diaries on MyDD.  You are an uber Clinton partisan, who cannot simply look at an astounding moment in American political history and appreciate the sentiment.

I have no doubt that if the exact same speech had been given by Hillary, you would be here now extolling the bravery and insight of Hillary. It's really a shame you are so stuck in your shallow sad world, unable to see past your own opinions.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:42:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 1)

Hillary would never throw her grandma under the bus. Seriously, the speech wasn't bad, but the timing of it is highly suspect, not to mention politically expedient. I question the sincerity of a candidate who constantly claims that his candidacy transcends race (while at the same time crying racist every other day about his opponent) and then jumps in with both feet the minute he gets in real trouble.


If Hillary walked on water, she would be criticized for not swimming and if Obama swam, he would be lauded for being able to do what Hillary could not do.
by portia9 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:24:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Silly season (2.00 / 5)

There was no grandma-throwing involved.  Telling a deeply personal story and suggesting we get beyond people's flaws is not throwing someone you love under a bus.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:51:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Silly season (2.00 / 2)

I really don't get the "grandma throwing" charge.  Maybe it seemed that way to those who are lucky enough to have lived a life devoid of contact with racism.

But for those of us who have encountered it, as I have, that part of his speech really hit home.  I know plenty of people who are like that grandmother, or worse, some of whom call themselves Democrats.  Not all racism is the same.  It comes in varying degrees, and levels of intent.  But it's rarely very hard to find.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:35:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Silly season (2.00 / 2)

I just read an article by Michael Medved that said that it was "wretched" to say such things about her because it compared her to Wright.

I don't think Obama talked about degrees of problematic behavior in the speech, he just pointed out where there were issues.

What a lot of the critics don't understand is that the story was in his first book over a decade ago, and theoretically his grandmother doesn't care.

None of these people are Stalin, I don't see why we have to go into degrees of hate.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:50:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 4)

I don't view his bringing up his Grandma or Ferraro as throwing either of them under the bus. He used personal experience and a personal story to make a point. I am amazed that some people (Clintonites) are so offended by this.


I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.
by JDF on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:52:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 2)

Well, I don't think that anyone is really offended by this.

But I understand using it as just more punch in the kitchen sink.

The funny thing is that I wrote and published a piece a few years ago that did just about the same thing.

It admitted that my traditional white American upbringing was essentially an at least mildly racist one.

I was moved by how many people told me they had the same experience. Racial tensions are a fact of our history folks. Obama is a brave man for admitting that instead of relying on the polite fiction that we've already overcome that.

I just can't see the logic in condemning Obama on this front.

Truly, he gave his grandmother great respect and his country great respect by accepting them for what they really are, unconditionally.

To do otherwise is just bullshit lies folks, and that's the very shit that causes the cancer.


by luckymortal on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:23:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (none / 0)

how is the timing suspect.

the man's defending himself.


"Don't let it end this way; tell them I said something." -the last words of Pancho Villa
by shef on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (none / 0)

Context, comprehension.  They are fundamental to understanding.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:39:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (none / 0)

Just curious which world you are in? The one where light comes from behind?

Wanna see a world which can highlight the lack of character and judgement someone named Barack Obama shows?

If you want to discuss, let me know. Otherwise, I dont want to scare you out of your world:-)


by Sandeep on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:52:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 2)

I've challenged you to "discuss" numerous times before and all you where able to say was stuff like"

"look it up for yourself"

"Hillary is the only Democrat"

"Obama can't win"

I'm just biding my time until the day after the convention when I won't have to be bothered with your blather anymore.


Hillary Clinton is not a monster,....as far as I know.. We are all Hussein JUNIOR.. ///.. FEINGOLD/BOXER 2016
by Its Like Herding Cats on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:37:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (2.00 / 7)

Cynical.  You know, I think back to how angry I was (and frankly, still am) when Bush was elected the first time.  

What did I say about America?  

What did I say the second time the man I belived was a criminal ascended to the oval office?

What did I say about insurace companies when the medical bills not covered by our pitiful insurance rolled in after my girlfriend had a lump removed from her breast?

What have I said about Bush and republican cronies picking part the constitution?  Habeas corpus?

What did I say when our leaders decided to invade Iraq, despite my lack of "clairivoyance"?

What did I say each and every time dems failed to stand up to fight FISA?

Well, I'll tell you, I've said some pretty colorful things in my anger and disappointment.  Honestly, they wouldn't sound all that much different than "God damn America" for allowing this shit to happen.

Will the UPS driver in Indiana be incapable of understanding how a minority might be angry?  Will they be able look around their town or at their own life without finding something to be angry about? Perhaps the direction the country is moving?  About their nephew serving in Irag?

Why are we so frightened of "angry black people"?  

You say that Obama is using race to "silence his critics"?  Are you mad?  His speech calls us all to account for the way in which we view the world and demands that we do better, accept one another, and work together.

Sorry, but that is unusual.  It is new and fresh in american politics (since the 60s anyway).


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:04:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (none / 0)

Indeed...why do we all act like we've never been angry with this country, in one way or another.  Whether we get angry at a few voters in Florida who screwed up their ballots, or the 50+ million who voted for Bush AFTER he was proven to be a waste of air, or just American in general, sometimes anger is justified.

P.S. - hope everything is ok with your girlfriend.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:40:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Frustrating, isn't it (2.00 / 1)

He gave a speech! And people liked it! The nerve. It's so unfair. How does he get away with it?

But woah - hey, how did you get to type that comment? Aren't you supposed to be silenced? Guess the speech didn't work like that devious Obama planned.


I rock knobs
by Etchasketchist on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 04:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a great comment - anonymous (none / 0)

The NYTimes brought up an interesting point about this speech. Barack Obama is asking us to take Rev Wright's fiery rhetoric and to put it in context with his entire life, to put it in perspective. We are not supposed to judge the man based on these "few" anti-American speeches. Overall, Obama says, Rev Wright is a good man. Yet when it comes to his political opponent, Hillary Clinton, we are supposed to focus on one thing: her "bad" judgment on Iraq. We are to ignore the context of her life, or the bigger perspective. It seems as if he's guilty of doing the same thing people may already have done with Rev Wright.

Interesting point.  

But there's a difference between how we treat Hillary and Wright.  Hillary is using her experience to run for higher office.  Wright is not.  I don't think most (won't say "any" because some people take everything too far) Obama supporters would decry Hillary Clinton as being generally bad for America (or Arkansas, or New York).  I certainly know that I wouldn't.  She's done a lot of good, certainly more good than bad, and should be applauded for it.  But for those who think of Iraq as the biggest issue, she's a candidate running for (among the other roles of the President) Commander in Chief.  In that respect, that vote looks like a giant mark of red ink on an otherwise well written term paper (sorry...college teacher...I'm contractually obligated to use education related similes and metaphors).

Wright, on the other hand, is retired.  Were he running for some office, this WOULD and SHOULD be an important criterion in judging him.  But, since he is not, we don't have to shine a harsh light on his mistakes as part of the process of judging his suitability.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:27:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am very sure they would (none / 0)

I for do not have a second thought about that.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:09:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 1)

That's nice to hear.  It's often hard to find reasonable calls to unite and win over all the shouting.

And, yes, I'll be voting for Hillary, if she's the nominee.  

Why?

The Supreme Court
Iran
Healthcare
Education
A responsible foreign policy
...the list goes on.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:18:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 2)

And do you intend to vote for Clinton, should she be nominated?  Because it is entirely possible that will occur.


by Montague on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:27:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for ... (2.00 / 4)

... engaging in this all-important discussion, in an  honest and reasonable manner.


What's the Point?
by Vermonter on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:33:39 AM EST

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 11)

I grew up near 6 mile and Telegraph road during the 60's.  My dad was a Detroit Fireman.  So your diary really brought back some memories.  I remember the white flight that took place just after the race riots there in 1967.  There is a nice blog written by Michael Happy at the Detroit news about his neighborhood growing up and how time has changed it, and what he is doing to try and help the current residents.  It's an area right around City Airport.  I am very familiar with the area because I worked for a few years during the 1980 on E. Davidisno near Van Dyke.

I have shed many tears reading it.  I hope anyone who takes a look enjoys it as much as I have.

http://community.detnews.com/blogs/index .php/neighborhood/2007/08/

You can look at archives by clicking on the links in the right hand column.


by Dave B on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:38:04 AM EST

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 2)

I have considered many times writing a Diary and calling attention to Michael Happy's blog at Daily Kos.  But as it stands now, I won't go back to that place.


by Dave B on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:40:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 1)

I wish I had posted these multimedia clips from Michael J. Happy of the Detroit News in my first post...  It's truly heart wrenching...

http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/de tnews/2007/news/0721dobelstreet/index.ht ml

http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/de tnews/2007/news/0911playground/index.htm l

What the world needs is a few more people like Michael Happy!


by Dave B on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:06:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 7)

Thanks for the diary. There is no reason we can't all be civil.

Definite rec.


by Zorro the Greek on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:46:31 AM EST

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 7)

Thank you.  I appreciate your insights about racism in your family, something I would think is true for most families. I certainly have some of those folks in mine.  

Your response shows how Obama talking about his grandmother was a moment of rare honesty that touches us and forces us to think.  Lest anyone think that this was an act of political expediency (i.e., throwing his grandmother under a bus), they might also want to consider that he wrote about this a number of years ago and in some depth.  Obama recounted this in his first book.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:50:11 AM EST

Recommended (2.00 / 11)

Like you I remain a Sen. Clinton supporter but see no reason to despise Sen. Obama and found the speech remarkably perceptive about race relations if a little flat in delivery, though I understand why calm was the best approach.


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:55:25 AM EST

Re: Recommended (none / 0)

As an Obama supporter, I found it to be a little flat, too.  Maybe I'm just used to the more grand approach, in an auditorium packed with screaming supporters.  But this was just a room (not sure of the size) with what seemed to be some supporters and a lot of press.  I suppose it's probably a more appropriate venue, since it's less of a stump speech at a campaign rally, but it left me feeling that it wasn't the best speaking he's done, even if it was perhaps the most important material he's dealt with.  

But I DO like what he had to say.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 05:46:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 10)

thank you for your diary. As a Clinton supporter, I agree with you, his speech was very good.

I can pick apart points within the speech, I can point to some inconsistencies.

but, that's not the point of the speech.

The essence of the speech, the tone of the speech worked and was a good speech


by nikkid on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:05:12 AM EST

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 2)

there are always points of contention and inconsistency in speeches. I am glad that you are able to look past them.

It seems to me that is a bigger issue than we are willing to discuss here at MYDD. An inability to look at the whole picture when dealing with the "other candidate," we always seem to look to the flaws, inflate them and use them to ridicule both the candidate and their supporters. It is nice to see some of us moving past that.


I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.
by JDF on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes (2.00 / 9)

Good diary.  Talking about race is difficult, for anyone, and especially when you risk being personal.  Puting aside agreement or disagreement with the specific, I give you all the credit in the word for writing something so personal and thoughtful.  


by HSTruman on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:06:15 AM EST

It's not just about 2008 (2.00 / 8)

...this primary has exposed, as it always would have to, deep wounds from the past.

It's not just about Obama's speech either. It's about the personal space it opens up for others to confront, confess, address the fears and stereotypes inside their own head.

You've done that bravely, brilliantly. Whatever happens in the primaries, whatever happens in the GE, discussions like this are the only way to begin to heal those deep deep wounds. It hurts to expose them. But after the pain, left to breathe, comes the healing.

Thankyou


by brit on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:13:52 AM EST

It was a good speech, but not so (2.00 / 2)

different from one Bill Clinton gave in 1995, NOT under duress to cover up a bad personal association and NOT to extricate himself from a tight spot, but rather from the heart.   And Obama finds it in his heart to smear this man and his wife as racists?

Abraham Lincoln reminded us that a house divided against itself cannot stand. When divisions have threatened to bring our house down, somehow we have always moved together to shore it up. My fellow Americans, our house is the greatest democracy in all human history. And with all its racial and ethnic diversity, it has beaten the odds of human history. But we know that divisions remain, and we still have work to do. (Applause.)

The two worlds we see now each contain both truth and distortion. Both black and white Americans must face this, for honesty is the only gateway to the many acts of reconciliation that will unite our worlds at last into one America.

White America must understand and acknowledge the roots of black pain. It began with unequal treatment first in law and later in fact. African Americans indeed have lived too long with a justice system that in too many cases has been and continues to be less than just. (Applause.) The record of abuses extends from lynchings and trumped up charges to false arrests and police brutality. The tragedies of Emmett Till and Rodney King are bloody markers on the very same road.

Still today too many of our police officers play by the rules of the bad old days. It is beyond wrong when law-abiding black parents have to tell their law-abiding children to fear the police whose salaries are paid by their own taxes. (Applause.)

And blacks are right to think something is terribly wrong when African American men are many times more likely to be victims of homicide than any other group in this country; when there are more African American men in our corrections system than in our colleges; when almost one in three African American men in their 20s are either in jail, on parole or otherwise under the supervision of the criminal justice system -- nearly one in three. And that is a disproportionate percentage in comparison to the percentage of blacks who use drugs in our society. Now, I would like every white person here and in America to take a moment to think how he or she would feel if one in three white men were in similar circumstances.

And there is still unacceptable economic disparity between blacks and whites. It is so fashionable to talk today about African Americans as if they have been some sort of protected class. Many whites think blacks are getting more than their fair share in terms of jobs and promotions. That is not true. That is not true. (Applause.)

The truth is that African Americans still make on average about 60 percent of what white people do; that more than half of African American children live in poverty. And at the very time our young Americans need access to college more than ever before, black college enrollment is dropping in America.

On the other hand, blacks must understand and acknowledge the roots of white fear in America. There is a legitimate fear of the violence that is too prevalent in our urban areas; and often by experience or at least what people see on the news at night, violence for those white people too often has a black face.

It isn't racist for a parent to pull his or her child close when walking through a high-crime neighborhood, or to wish to stay away from neighborhoods where innocent children can be shot in school or standing at bus stops by thugs driving by with assault weapons or toting handguns like old west desperados. (Applause.)

It isn't racist for parents to recoil in disgust when they read about a national survey of gang members saying that two-thirds of them feel justified in shooting someone simply for showing them disrespect. It isn't racist for whites to say they don't understand why people put up with gangs on the corner or in the projects, or with drugs being sold in the schools or in the open. It's not racist for whites to assert that the culture of welfare dependency, out-of-wedlock pregnancy and absent fatherhood cannot be broken by social programs unless there is first more personal responsibility. (Applause.)

The great potential for this march today, beyond the black community, is that whites will come to see a larger truth -- that blacks share their fears and embrace their convictions; openly assert that without changes in the black community and within individuals, real change for our society will not come.


Reasonable people can disagree.
by mnicholson0220 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:14:55 AM EST

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (2.00 / 5)

It's best to "blockquote" speech exerpts like that, so there's no confusion between your text and the quoted text.  Also, linking is good.

You were making a find point until you had to blow it with:

 And Obama finds it in his heart to smear this man and his wife as racists?

Irrespective of the value of that claim, do you not see it goes entirely against the grain of this thread?


by corph on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:30:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (2.00 / 6)

Agreed. If there's been playing of the race card on one side (and you can argue that back and forth) then it's been on both. May have been, may not have been. You've got things you see as impolitic, and so do we.

We can fight about them forever or we can agree to disagree.

I don't think Bill and Hillary Clinton are racists. I don't think Barack Obama is a racist. I don't think Barack Obama thinks Bill and Hillary Clinton are racists, and I don't think they think he is.

Things have been said on both sides. Apologies have been made. Obama was very gracious towards Ferraro yesterday. We all can be too.


No Way. No How. No McCain!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:31:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (2.00 / 3)

That was a great speech too. Both were. Leave out the crap about smearing some man and his wife as racists (who are you even talking about here)?


by elrod on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:06:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (2.00 / 4)

"Irrespective of the value of that claim, do you not see it goes entirely against the grain of this thread?"

People deserve to have the chance to present their views in proper context, and simply approving a positive statement doesn't reflect the dichotomy far too many of us have experienced in dealing with Barack Obama. Why is it that the same gentle context he extends toward Reverend Wright he does not extend to others, like the Clintons, and Geraldine Ferraro, who may not be supporting him to be president? I don't see anything transcendent about loving people who you see as like you and are supporting you and are part of your extended family. We all do that.

I grew up in New Jersey and one of my earliest experiences in the racial divide was as a cadet first responder in the Newark riots, when I saw people dying for their anger. The pain they suffered lasted far longer than any catharsis. A frightened society tossed them a bare bone - welfare. It was a subsistence pittance, and an insult.

My take on Barack Obama's speech was that it was an eloquent as usual speech that attempts to hide the fact that Barack Obama sat silently while a huge swath of Americans were vilified and damned by his pastor in front of him for at least 17 years. That's not a "profile in courage" as the New York Times would have it, it is an act of cowardice and irresponsibility. Courage dictates standing up to hate speech and racism wherever it raises it's ugly head. However he justifies his silence, I grieve the loss of what could have been.

Barack Obama has a history of an inordinate number of votes "present" on controversial issues, where others have taken the tough road and gone on record to take a stand. Barack Obama's actions have been to sit quietly and vote "present" when faced with virulent hate speech, for 17 years. Yes, I am sure there were additional better things that happened there as well.

In the family in which I was raised anyone who expressed racism or bigotry against  any race, ethnicity, disability, or sexual orientation or identity was immediately shown the door and told not to return until they had abandoned those prejudices. Confronting bigotry and letting bigots know it is not acceptable is what has changed hearts and minds to the extent that we have successfully changed our society over the past 40 years. Bigots need to hear that other people do not agree with their unjust prejudices. Silence is tacit approval, and if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Painting a grand picture doesn't allay my squirming discomfort with 17 years of going along with hate speech. I heard too much rationalizing. We are all victims of victims. That is the human condition. There have been many enslavements and many genocides in human history. We are all one, that is a fact.

Elocution may distract people temporarily from the facts, but the rock bottom line is that cowardice when courage is called for won't win votes, not when we need a real leader in the White House, not someone who votes "present" when the chips are down. No matter how eloquently he can explain it away.

You may hear this as a harsh evaluation compared to the positive one this diarist prefers, but I want to honor people who take real risks, and have the courage to go against the grain, and who use the opportunities life offers them to make a difference.

How many lives would have been shaped differently had Barack Obama the courage to confront his pastor long ago, so that instead of hearing a repeating litany of untruth and hatred, a more compassionate, constructive message could be given? That's what leadership is about. You can still name the anger, and acknowledge the legitimacy of the rage, without adding the distortions that keep the blame and hatred going beyond all reason. Demagoguery doesn't help, or heal, anyone. It provides an illusory rush of self righteousness, a seduction, not a truth. Like empty calories, they add only weight, and not strength, a non-nourishing diet of lies.

And it's time as well to move beyond talk into creating the answers to racial and economic inequality, which is where Hillary Clinton excels. Young people don't realize that we have already been going through all this for a very long time. She is already on part two, and that's essentially respectful of all.


by 07rescue on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:31:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (2.00 / 2)

Obama was very gracious towards Ferraro yesterday; I'm trying to be the same way. He acknowledged that she didn't harbor any deep-seated racism, which I agree with. I still have disagreements there, but enough of it; move on. Obama was very gracious towards her; I can be too.

I agree and disagree with your last sentence. It is time to move on. I agree that Hillary Clinton is strong in this area, but by implication you see to be saying that she's at part two and Obama's at part one. I disagree. I think they're both well into part two. Both of them excel at this. Both of them are creating the answers.

But yesterday was a much better job of really doing phase one than has been done before. I've read and heard Bill Clinton's speeches before; they're good too. But yesterday's was an entirely different animal, as far as I'm concerned (and an extremely large number of reviewers, pundits, editorial boards, etc) agree. We've heard reports from all over about people mesmerized, standing and staring and watching a speech about race for over half an hour. For whatever reason -- maybe the situation, maybe how deeply personal it was, maybe the stakes, maybe the difference a decade makes -- this speech reached out and touched people to a degree that others haven't in a very long time.

And we needed that. Because we can talk about phase one and phase two as much as we want, but phase one isn't done, and it does matter that we get it done too.

Both Obama and Clinton will do a great job with phase two.


No Way. No How. No McCain!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (2.00 / 1)

"Because we can talk about phase one and phase two as much as we want, but phase one isn't done, and it does matter that we get it done too."

As long as there are young people coming into this world, which I hope there will be for many more generations, there will always be people at phase one, clearly. And there are new wounds sown every day, all I need do is exit the door of my NYC apartment to witness many of them, to talk about.

My point is that the ongoing national conversation about racism, which in so many places is a regular concern, does not need to take center stage when we need action, concrete, effective action, to supplement the talk.

The older among us are tired of the consciousness raising done in the absence of putting our money where our mouth is. Black eleven year olds like Diamonte Driver dying from an abscessed tooth that could have been remedied by an $80.00 extraction, because Medicaid churning turned him out of health care at the wrong moment, are a horror story. I watch these things going on every single day as a health care provider. On top of unnecessary disability and death there is the degradation and humiliation of helplessness and poverty that results from the unaffordability of health care alone, as only one issue in a plethora of evils, that need to be addressed, yesterday. I don't know about everyone else, but I feel urgency to achieve these things, and I know Clinton will get the job done.

Go ahead and talk about it all, to your hearts content (I don't mean that as snark, I mean it sincerely,  I'm just frustrated), but let's elect someone who can get the job done. We really are on the same side, but some of us need to get the action up and running already. The 8 year hiatus and entropy on all things constructive in this country has to end.


by 07rescue on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (none / 0)

Oh, I completely agree with you. That's what Obama was saying too -- that this is the wrong focus. He made that very clear. He stressed that the real issues are the real issues: the war, the economy, health care, the courts, corporatism, corruption, and so forth.

I feel the same sense of urgency you do. I just believe that Obama has a much better chance of getting them done, because I believe that Clinton will have a far harder time building the coalitions needed to make progress, based on the intractable hatred the other side has for her, and that she'll run more poorly as a national candidate and there will be narrower Democratic majorities in the House and Senate than with Obama.

Obviously you disagree, and that's fine. Those are real points on which to debate whose candidate is a better nominee. They're not all the nonsense and nonissues we've been subjected to since mid-February.

And either of them will get those things done far, far better than McCain. One or the other's going to be our nominee. We all have some responsibility to make sure we're not the ones enabling McCain to win.


No Way. No How. No McCain!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 01:57:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (2.00 / 1)

"I just believe that Obama has a much better chance of getting them done, because I believe that Clinton will have a far harder time building the coalitions needed to make progress, based on the intractable hatred the other side has for her, and that she'll run more poorly as a national candidate and there will be narrower Democratic majorities in the House and Senate than with Obama."

This is where my personal familiarity with Clinton's effectiveness in NY (I volunteered in her Manhattan district office after 9-11 sickened me too much to continue to work) has convinced me that she can be far more effective as a bridge builder than the common regard for her allows, and is the precise aspect of her talents that have never been adequately portrayed by her campaign (I blame Mark Penn, Mandy Grunwald would have build her up accurately, they fight about it and he wins too often). I would have all her grateful and heart felt Republican supporters in upstate New York talking about how great it is to have a fighter like her working on their behalf. They were so astounded when she kept all her campaign promises and immediately started in on the economic development projects she helped envision with them. They were blown away.

She is extraordinary in her tenaciousness and will to get things done. She also cares deeply about people. No BS. She shows up. She works so hard she gets the respect of the Republicans , both in NY state and in the Senate. She has built bridges already.

These are the things that make her supporters as passionate as they are for her.

It's almost weird how her personal warmth and care simply do not translate into TV and other big public appearances, and her campaign has never effectively found a way to bring who she is forward.


by 07rescue on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 02:44:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (2.00 / 1)

I blame Mark Penn

In the Obama-centric group that I used to frequent, we considered Penn to be much more of a "monster" than Clinton.  I've heard lots of second-hand stories about Clinton being personable, but all I've heard about Penn makes him repellant.

He acts and speaks like the worst Republican sleaze-merchant, and I can't imagine why Clinton chooses to retain him.

I don't think much of Wolfson, either, but he doesn't make my gorge rise as much as Penn does.  Perhaps I'm reaching too much when I note that McCain's campaign takes a lot of the same strategies as Clinton's does, and Penn is in the same PR firm as McCain's top dogs.

Why do they still retain this guy when his strategies are so transparently disasterous for Clinton (and perhaps the Democratic party) in the long run?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (2.00 / 2)

"He acts and speaks like the worst Republican sleaze-merchant, and I can't imagine why Clinton chooses to retain him."

I venture to guess that 99.999% of Clinton supporters agree with you on this. I have to allow for one strong point that, while odious to me personally (I place Mark Penn farther on the scale of "bad actors" than I even place George Bush), I do understand that having one right winger on your staff to balance the otherwise overwhelming preponderance of liberal/progressive voices does make sense. He has some skills to make him more valuable, as well.

Her philosophy is to try to hire the best (questionable in Penn's case, we all agree) with a variety of viewpoints, and let them hone the campaign's approach, rather than letting homogeneity dull the edge. In theory I agree. In practice I think the stalement it has engendered has hobbled the campaign, and there has been a loss of accuracy in how Clinton has been presented as a candidate. It's deadly, and shouldn't continue. In some ways I think she has "learned her lesson" about taking other people's opinions into consideration, a lesson that has been beaten into her from the health care issue, and misapplied it here. I do wish her campaign were more about who she is, because that is something the voters need to know to trust her.

Often campaigns will turn on where the strategy offered meets the candidate's character, and I think it is very difficult for Clinton to place herself out in the public eye in a personal fashion. Mark Penn's emphasis on going with the issues alone meets Clintons' personal need to keep the focus off who she is.

Personally, had I gone through 1/10,000th what she has been through in terms of being personally attacked and unjustly reviled, I would have curled up into a little ball and told the world to go do something to themselves. I would be outta there fast. She has hung in, I don't know how, but she has, and I give her immense credit for that. The process has taken it's toll, however, and politics has not gotten any gentler.

Maybe the very intensity of this battle will bring out who Hillary Clinton is at an opportune time. It seemed to during the Ohio/Texas primaries, when her tenor changed and she simply fought, undefended. I think that works for her. Her sincerity comes through to people in that circumstance. No one mistakes her for poll driven then, and all the Mark Penns in the world cannot hide who she is. Not a charismatic rock star, we agree, but the real deal, and a real asset to our country. The frank populist you see appear, no teleprompter, no parsed phraseology, no calculated carefulness, is what is most essential, and most congruent, with who she is. Of course there are the layers of "how" that conflate every political person and issue, but if you need to know the underlying goal, and basically  the "why" of who she is, that basic fairness, empathy, and need to see the least of us prosper and be healed is what she is about.

Some people are hard on the outside and soft on the inside. Others are soft on the outside, and hard as rock on the inside. I want the former, and that is who Hillary Clinton is.


by 07rescue on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 01:33:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are a credit to your candidate (none / 0)

Thank you for that, 07rescue.  As an Obama supporter, I sometimes have a hard time understanding some Clinton supporters who act like they hate Obama more than they love Clinton; a stance that I cannot mesh with my own feelings for my candidate.

But your position, I can definitely relate to.  

Great post.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 09:14:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (none / 0)

I agree. I strongly dislike Mark Penn, and I dislike the microtrends school of politics (but then of course I would, I'm in a state his theories say is unimportant to his candidate, and in any case it's pretty much the opposite of the 50-state strategy).

I would still most likely be a strong Obama supporter either way, but at least I wouldn't feel like Clinton's campaign staff is a big part of the problem.


No Way. No How. No McCain!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 03:37:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (none / 0)

"but at least I wouldn't feel like Clinton's campaign staff is a big part of the problem."

It was the presence of Mark Penn that kept me away from her campaign up until February, and I have always supported her otherwise. I didn't contribute any money until then, either, and I am a lifelong contributor to Democratic candidates. But for me his presence is not enough to totally deny her my support, it is a hurdle I had to clear, however, and it remains a worry.

While he may serve a purpose for the campaign, I personally do not believe such a bad actor belongs so close to her, and I will always wish she would get rid of him. I honestly believe she would get a burst of increased support if he were gone, it would relieve many people's misgivings that currently act as a brake on their willingness to contribute. It would be a large net gain of support for her to get rid of him.


by 07rescue on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 05:18:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was a good speech, but not so (none / 0)

different from one Bill Clinton gave in 1995, NOT under duress to cover up a bad personal association and NOT to extricate himself from a tight spot, but rather from the heart.

What makes you think that one can't both defend oneself andspeak from the heart?


"Don't let it end this way; tell them I said something." -the last words of Pancho Villa
by shef on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:06:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

<
Re: As if Bill was the first one to try to talk (none / 0)

As a progressive, I will speak out against hate anytime I see it regardless of consequences. All racism is evil.